129
 64,552

 People having babies... is wrong?????

  1 2 3   
so... do some people seriously actually think people shouldn't be allowed to have babies errr... parasitic human infants... anymore... like seriously????

lets try to keep our heads in this discussion and avoid angry outbursts.... i'm not starting this thread to cause drama, i'm just genuinely confused and concerned that people might actually think this... someone please enlighten me.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 10:21 AM
 23 Jul 2009
 Nova Scotia
5_Dimples
Raving Lunatic
11,402
umm I have heard some people say that procreating is environmentally unfriendly. Clearly I hate the earth

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 10:25 AM
 26 Apr 2010
finallythebride
WB Devotee
2,278
who said that????

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 10:28 AM
 7 Aug 2010
 Vegreville, AB
Beaker
WB Devotee
1,370
I think the intro to the movie Idiocracy sums it up pretty well, if a bit over-the-top...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo&feature=related

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 10:38 AM
 22 Sep 2004
 In the Land of Misfit Toys
evil.mena
Raving Lunatic
14,430
There are people that will argue that the earth as a whole cannot handle the population we already have and will continue to have if people keep having babies..meaning resources, etc. I don't think it's that far fetched...I suppose a lot of the global thinkers in here should fall into that argument since it shouldn't matter where the population is out of control, it affects all.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 10:48 AM
 19 Oct 2009
 Winnipeg, MB
justagirl
Postaholic
6,643

Originally Posted By: sailtothemoon
avatar
 2 Sep 2010 10:53 AM
 18 Jul 2006
Dazed
Postaholic
8,516
I'm childfree by choice and definitely think that people in general should be having fewer or no kids for social, economic, and environmental reasons (yes, there are economic arguments to support not having kids at a societal level). I'm opposed to incentives for having children when proposed by governments or in general conversation. And I find that trailer funny, but I don't think that because I'm ever-so-smart, I should get to reproduce. In fact, I consider myself smart enough not to, personally.

All that said, my not having kids is my choice, just like "your" (general you) attempt to have / having kids is your choice. I can [gently] attempt to influence your decision one way or another by sharing my opinion but if you want to or have kids, I'm not going to judge you as a lesser person or punish you or something crazy like that. Just like I'd hope that you'd respect my not wanting kids, even if you question why or [gently] attempt to convince me it's a better idea to have them.

Respect is a two-way street, so while you might not agree with my choices and I might not agree with yours, we shouldn't have to fight about it. Maybe we can just look quizzically in the other's direction?

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 10:55 AM
 26 Jun 2006
 Chatham Ontario
Indipeach
WB Addict
4,129
Definitely putting that on the list of movies to download!

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:11 AM
 19 Oct 2009
 Winnipeg, MB
justagirl
Postaholic
6,643
ok, i think i see what people are saying...

Quote:
avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:14 AM
 6 Feb 2010
 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
missjess
WB Lurker
213
I agree with Shore - our society is very child-centric. I think that even if there was a movement to reduce the population, there would still be a lot of reproduction. I can understand the issue from both sides, but I think it is really more of an issue from the previous baby-boomer generation. Canada has had to increase immigration since then to make up for the lack of Canadian-born children. It may be environmentally-unfriendly, but to cut back on the number of people in the country creates disasters for the economy.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:17 AM
 23 Jun 2007
 Tinseltown
Poulette
Postaholic
9,801
If we want to keep a civil discussion, maybe we could refrain from repeating the language of yesterday's whackjob? smile

Yes, there are some people who believe that. I obviously don't.

Some of these same people who believe in reducing the Earth's population are also major offenders in other areas (jet setting all over the place) so in my view, I think it all balances out in the end.

I don't prescribe to that belief in the least. We are expecting our first, and we do hope to have a big family. I can understand the argument behind not having kids or not having more than you have to, but at the same time, if we teach our kids to be responsible world citizens and care about the world around them (people and environment alike) I think babies are a sign of hope, and one of them could very well solve the problems that our generation was not able to solve.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:19 AM
 21 Jul 2006
Rain_City_Girl
Guru
17,359
For some people yes it is wrong, for others it's a part of life.

What I don't get is why we can't support each other. Just because one chooses to have a child doesn't mean that they are self involved. If someone chooses not to have a child it doesn't mean that they hate all children, for the most part it's just not the lifestyle for them.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:19 AM
 13 Jun 2005
 Toronto, ON
aw2006
Addict
3,822
Ottawagirl - I couldn't have said it better. Completely agree. Although I'll only be contributing one little taxpayer (for now).

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:20 AM
 21 May 2010
Baking_another
Weddingbeller
767
I certainly think that whether you have children or not should be a personal choice. In fact, I think those that choose to live childfree are incredibly selfless, because I think there is nothing worse then someone having a child that they don't actually want.

However, I think to say that it is "wrong" to have children, or people should be limited on the number of children they have, are not thinking long term. Most of us (obviously depending on our age) will have some of (or much of) our taxes going towards supporting services for the older generation, just the same way that they supported their older generation. If you have a smaller younger generation, where does the money come from to support those services?

You know, I will do an awful lot for the environment, but not having children is not one of those things.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:30 AM
 19 Sep 2005
Ms_Married
Duchess of the Forum
21,087
I understand the view that having children, or more than one child, is not environmentally friendly and that the world population is too large. I don't necessarily disagree that we have a population issue. Maybe.

However...that is a utopian perspective based on the notion of some sort of world-wide redistribution of wealth and resources. That's not going to happen. Westerners (or, at least the vast majority of westerners) are not going to accept a vastly lower standard of living so that people in other parts of the world can have a higher standard of living. Never going to happen. We might find ways to increase food production with fewer environmental impacts, or ways to restructure aid to make a greater impact, but a massive world-wide redistribution of wealth is not going to happen.

So I choose to look at practical solutions for our own problems here at home in Canada, as outlined by Ottawagirl. Consequently, I would support Canadian initiatives to increase our birth rate. The federal government for the last 15-20 years has been very short-sighted in its failure to plan for the retirement and death of the boomers, just like it was short-sighted in failing to plan for their birth and education.

And whether you yourself want kids or not is really moot - you still like to have roads to drive on, doctors to look after you, civil servants to run the country, etc. All of those things require both an adequate tax base and children to grow up to fill those roles. Immigration is only part of the solution.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:30 AM
 18 Jul 2006
Dazed
Postaholic
8,516
Ottawagirl: I've actually seen a few studies of societies that went through that transition (a large cohort that eventually died off and didn't replace itself) and in fact, all the examples (I think three?) showed that while there was a shift, it wasn't the disaster everyone thought it would be. It generally became a disaster (my interpretation) in the one society they looked at that attempted to replace it's cohort. Granted, that society didn't succeed in fully replacing the large dense cohort (think of how wide the age-range of Echo is versus Boomer for an indication of why) but it still suffered greater problems than the other three(ish) societies examined.

Can't find the source right now because I'm at work and live in the wrong city with the wrong computer but it was very interesting reading. Maybe someone else saw it (I found it on a wander through the library).

But again, having kids is a personal choice, like driving an SUV or taking vacations or whatever, and you can make whatever choice you want to. I do fully reject the idea that it's natural because it negates our ability to make choices (choices which are open to us in our society, thank goodness!) and stand by them. Having children is just as natural as murdering each other for food and clothing (with the same time frame of evolutionary history), and I disagree with that as a concept, as I suspect all of you do, too. Really, I wouldn't recommend going down that "it's natural" road. There are much better arguments out there for choosing to have children.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:36 AM
 23 Jun 2007
 Tinseltown
Poulette
Postaholic
9,801
And now, for a little levity:



I'm really really sorry. I've just had this stuck in my head since yesterday!

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:39 AM
 22 Sep 2004
 In the Land of Misfit Toys
evil.mena
Raving Lunatic
14,430
teeth

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:40 AM
 10 Mar 2003
 Mommyland
Kasey
Postaholic
5,874
I have always congratulated those who chose not to have kids- its better to know you suck as something before you try it- having a child is not something you can take back. I know my sister would be a lousy parent and when she told the family she would never have a kid- everyone was happy.
But I have to disagree about our society child-centric...its not.
And people want health care,you've got to replace workers- we cannot have 80 yr old nurses.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 11:52 AM
 7 Jul 2005
 Saskatoon SK
redandrea
Devotee
2,345
Animals are programmed to reproduce. But they are also programmed to survive and to insure that they get the chance to reproduce, often at the expense of other members of their species. Think of male lions killing all the cubs when they take over a pack, so that the lionesses come into heat again and will reproduce with the new leader. Pretty brutal.

I think what Dazed is saying is that there are many behaviors that are seen in the natural world that we as humans now make subject to a conscious decision rather than automatic behavior. Otherwise we'd all be constantly fighting with family to establish the pecking order so that we got the most food, best place to sleep, access to the ovulating females (if male) or forced to have sex with the strongest/smartest male leader (if female). Actually, we'd probably be grandparents already and reproductively redundant, so we'd be forced out of the pack and left to die.

Actually if I remember some of my intro Bio, there are some animal species that self-regulate their population growth. When there are too many individuals, their fertility drops, mothers become less fit, infant mortality rises. So in a sense, people who chose not to have children could be following that model and may be behaving more naturally than those who have children!

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 12:27 PM
 19 Oct 2009
 Winnipeg, MB
justagirl
Postaholic
6,643
shore - face it, we are animals - some things are just naturally engrained... *insert elton john lyrics here

no one HERE is saying you HAVE to have kids - but play russian roulette with your life, really???

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 12:30 PM
 4 Dec 2005
newyears
Addict
4,396
If our generation doesn't have children, who will serve me pancakes at Golden Griddle when I'm retired?

Or do my taxes, clean my pool, take care of me in a retirement home, perform in the arts to amuse me, think of solutions to the world's problems, etc?

Thinking of a world with no "next generation" generally makes me sad. There is so much joy to be gained from the existence of younger people.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 12:46 PM
 4 Dec 2005
newyears
Addict
4,396
Shore - You do sound self aware and I don't think anyone wants people to have children who don't want them.

In all seriousness, I'm sorry that you are scared to get pregnant because it will ruin your life. Having a child was the most inconvenient and GREATEST thing that has ever happened to me. It was well worth the risk.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 12:55 PM
 18 Jul 2006
Dazed
Postaholic
8,516
Actually, I think one of them was Sweden (I was reading a book about Finland and an article about Norway at the time though, so I might have all three of those Scandinavian countries mixed up---awful, I know! My apologies to Scandinavia, especially Denmark about whom I did not read at all at that time!). Scandinavian countries in general have very high taxes, very high rates of giving to the Global South, and rather well maintained social services. This one (Sweden? I think?) has managed to maintain their systems despite having gone through their glut. Gosh, I wish I could remember the name of the book, though (gah, the details are gone ... it was at the Regina Public Library while my SO was at a meeting, and I wrote it in the little electronic thingy he had at the time. Why can I remember that but not the title or the countries? Yarg!)!

Quote:
avatar
 2 Sep 2010 1:00 PM
 4 Dec 2005
newyears
Addict
4,396
Agreed that you are adding to the Canadian population if you adopt from abroad.

Interesting re: nature vs. nurture. I'd say that in more "primitive" societies people just have children with no thought (especially if they don't have BC options). So perhaps having children is "natural".

We can only speak of whether the desire to have children is from nuture in a society where there is BC. So in "modern" society I would say that it is both nature and nurture.

avatar
 31 Oct 2012 11:59 PM
 30 Apr 2012
 buzzle.ca
buzzle
New Member
0

Want to continue the discussion?

For more discussion like this or to reconnect with weddingbells.ca forum members, check out the forums at buzzle.ca!
avatar
 2 Sep 2010 1:01 PM
 22 Sep 2004
 In the Land of Misfit Toys
evil.mena
Raving Lunatic
14,430
Thanks crosssticher.

Again my posts keep getting misread hence why I think it must be me!!

Actually Amber, there were people who asked why, and said I was crazy! rofl

I have never stated it's right to question someone who asks why you aren't having kids, ultimately whatever anyone decides it's nobody else's business. I was, AGAIN, for the like the 3rd or 4th time, giving Shore an explanation as to why people in her circle might be doing so.

I do think it's about perspective though, and everyone's is different. You can't control anyone else but you are in control of yourself. Why do you feel the need to defend? And who says people who have chidren aren't questioned as to why, it happens on this board! Again, I don't feel the need to defend. Explain maybe, but most people accept explanations. Sure there are those that don't and they're dolts but again, who cares? Why is a question so offensive - even if it isn't meant in malice? Because of the other person's experience...hence we'd have to censor anything we ever say!

I'm on the fence about having another....like this is a HUGE, REALLY high up fence I can't seem to get down from one side or the other. I have people all the time saying I should have another, that it's a detriment to my child, etc. but ultimately I'm the one who has to live with the decision and the result so their questioning/harping/nagging has little to no impact on me. Does it make me question things? Sure, that's what life's all about...perspective.

Maybe I'm apt to say some people that have more than one may not do a lot of thinking about it, again, that's because of my personal lot in life that would make me question that, but it doesn't mean I'm right or that they shouldn't. Obviously they're experience is different than mine. Okay, now I'm just rambling.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 1:17 PM
 6 Jan 2006
 Dartmouth NS
NancyAnn
Devotee
1,953
With the talk about adoption and people who would adopt selflessly, I would be curious to know how many people adopt who have already tried to conceive naturally/via fertility treatments, and failed.

I don't think such a statistic exists, but I think that may be a driving motivator for many people who choose to adopt. Basically because all the love they want to give to the child they CAN'T have, they want to give to another? Hence more like a biological child - type - response?

That may not make sense, I am on a call at work and I'm half listening to it. smile

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 1:42 PM
 25 Feb 2009
 Toronto, Ont
AriMi
Fan
828
If you don't want kids that should be your own busniess on what your reasoning is, you don't need to explain to anyone else.

I will be honest (maybe I'm selfish) but when someone tells me they will give up (I don't mean think about it, I mean they are 100% sure they will not have children) having a child b/c the world is such a bad place makes me believe they weren't 100% sure about the idea to begin with. Sorry but I want a kid and hearing that this world is such a bad place doesn't make me change my mind or do I ever feel guilty etc.. Image if our grandparents/parents said that during WW1 or WW2, some of us wouldn't be here!!!

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:04 PM
 13 Jun 2005
 Toronto, ON
aw2006
Addict
3,822
"Nobody ever decides not to have kids because their parents didn't." That's right because those people would not be alive.

It's not fair that you (the general you) are judged for not wanting to have children - regardless of the thought that you've put into it or the lack of thought for that matter.

I think that strangers etc should be keep their questions to themselves. As for family, once you've made your decision clear they should back off as well.

But, you have to be able to see why your FMIL/FFIL or your parents would ask you these questions. They are people who have chosen to have children. That's what they think is normal. They have dreams wrapped up in the very essence of who their children are... they dreamt of the day their son or daughter would take their first steps, have their first day of school, graduate from university, get married, have kids etc. They've dreamt or at least thought of the days of being a grandparent and being able to see their daughter pregnant or their son become a father himself. By making a decision not to have children you're not just affecting your own life. Of course they are going to question you, their hopes/beliefs/dreams have been taken away. ETA - Once you have explained your postion then it should be respected regardless of who it is.

As to the inability of the planet to sustain the life on it. I'm not convinced of this and, frankly, I'm not educated enough on the topic to comment.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:23 PM
 25 Apr 2007
BridenStride
WB Addict
3,562
Interesting thread. There's a lot here that I agree with, but a lot I also disagree with.

Equating children with the demise of the environment is one I have a real problem with though.

I have one kid. My kid is much more environmentally conscious than I was at his age. I'm pretty sure the "carbon footprint" he will leave on the world will be much smaller than mine. And his kids (should he choose to have them) will be even more environmentally aware than him and strive to make an even smaller footprint.

In this regard, I think it's hogwash that the human population can't sustain itself. And if it really truly can't...we won't be around to know about it anyway.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:23 PM
 7 Jul 2005
 Saskatoon SK
redandrea
Devotee
2,345
I was curious about this statement by Shore:
Quote:
avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:25 PM
 3 Sep 2007
 Winnipeg, Manitoba
Laur86
Devotee
2,286
This has been a really interesting thread (and one I got to read fully finally! smile )

My input: we are expecting our first and we plan to have a somewhat large family because that is what we both want. I come from a very large blended family (step bros, half bros, bros, sisters etc) with 6 kids in total. My mom is from 6, my dad is from 8, my stepmom is from 4 (all adopted actually), and my hubby is from 3 while his parents are from families of 8 and 10.
You can imagine family get togethers!

And that last sentence says it all. My family. Despite divorce and everything else yucky in my childhood, I had the most amazing upbringing always surrounded by cousins, aunts, uncles and family who loved me. I want the same for my kids and for my family. I never thought of not having kids. I always knew that I did want kids.

That being said, I also think about adoption and it is something that DH and I have talked about. Perhaps adopting a child as well, even though we know we are able to have our own biological child.

Those are some of my thoughts, but I should just say that I also truly appreciate the input to this discussion from Shore, Amber and Dazed and others. I have a coworker who has chosen along with his wife to not have kids. I asked him about this on a business trip once and he explained very nicely to me their reasons why. I never even thought that I was being rude.
Mind you, him and I have a pretty good relationship and I do not think he was offended. But I get the points you are making about the obtrusion into your personal life.

I also appreciate the points about environmental, economic, social impact etc because I fully admit that I probably do not think enough about the impact that my large family and I will have on our world. Perhaps that is selfish of me.

All that being said, this was a good lunch time read and really got me thinking. Thanks collective WB ladies!

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:25 PM
 19 Oct 2009
 Winnipeg, MB
justagirl
Postaholic
6,643
i must say though... i will be sad if my boys decide not to have kids... i'd like some grandbabies one day... thanks for your input shore - i'd like to think i will remember this conversation if this ever happens and try not to judge or be rude to my boys if/when this ever happens!


oh, and this made me rofl

Originally Posted By: Evilmena
avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:29 PM
 24 Sep 2008
PrairieWinter
Postaholic
5,573
Sailtothemoon--Totally, I see where you are coming from, even though I wouldn't say we entirely agree.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:32 PM
 3 Sep 2007
 Winnipeg, Manitoba
Laur86
Devotee
2,286
This is where fancy clapping smiley faced things come in handy!
(ie: round of applause) But I'm not good with that stuff.

Anyways, yes I agree with you Scottish.
It was/is nice and a breath of fresh air!

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:34 PM
 19 Oct 2009
 Winnipeg, MB
justagirl
Postaholic
6,643


there we go!! close 'nuff!

even better



avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:35 PM
 8 Jun 2009
Siiera
Postaholic
7,579
I haven't had a chance to read through everything but I wanted to address two points. I'll come back and read once my DD has a nap.

Quote:
avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:48 PM
 13 Jun 2005
 Toronto, ON
aw2006
Addict
3,822
Amberm145: Your point is not lost on me. It appears my attempt at humour has been lost on you. Again, let me state for the record... it is unfair that people are questioned/judged when they have made a decision not to have children.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 2:52 PM
 13 Jun 2005
 Toronto, ON
aw2006
Addict
3,822
No disrespect meant Amberm.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 3:06 PM
 14 Mar 2009
T&C
Duchess of the Forum
20,838
The thing with us is FH and I are NOT only children. It's not like we're her only hope, y'know??

Sorry to kind of hijack with my personal story. CARRY ON.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 3:14 PM
 9 Jul 2005
 Around, SK
LadyAurora
Duchess of the Forum
20,003
It is not my dream to become a grandparent. I am anyway. Whether I like it (or the timing) or not.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 3:19 PM
 28 Jun 2004
 Unknown
Anonymous472
Unknown
1,899
I've been finding this an interesting read.

Speaking for myself only, I know that the decision to have children was the most important decision of my life. I made it long before I ever met DH and, had he not come into my life, I would've done it without him.

Shortly following our wedding, we started trying. After a year of silently trying, the questions were coming fast and furious about when we were going to have children. When we let the cat out of the bag that we were having trouble (getting pregnant), we were inundated with comments about our lifestyle (methods, timing, food choices, stress...) that was preventing us from getting pregnant. Then once we started seeking fertility treatments, we were bombarded with comments about why we would put ourselves through that; why we would spend ten thousand dollars on IVF...Then, once I was pregnant (with twins), it was comments about my pregnancy, my size, how much of a struggle our babies were going to be, how expensive it was going to be, why would we want to have children....Once they were born (and for the last 3 years) it's been a lot of comments about our parenting, what we should be doing, how, when, why....

The questions and comments from family and strangers don't stop just because you've chosen to have children.

People are typically relentless when they feel their opinion is the "right" one. There have been many family fights about the expansion of our family and the only thing we've been able to do is stand our ground and trust that the decisions we've made, for ourselves and our children, are the right ones - regardless of what others have to say. I would say that the same sentiment would apply to those who have chosen a child-free life.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 3:51 PM
 2 Jun 2010
WhirlyGirl
Chatterbox
424
[quote=Dazed][quote]"We" don't deserve to live on this planet, not "them". Of course, I use the quotation marks to emphasize that the us and them mentality really isn't helping anything. But don't think that they're the root of the problem; you'll want to look a lot closer to home to get to the various roots upon which our completely unsustainable population is founded (political, economic, social, justice, historical, cultural). It's not, in my opinion, inherently unsustainable. It's just unsustainable as we live now and, when combined with Ms_Married's good point that people don't want to give up the things we have (like cotton undies and leather shoes)quote]

This is very well said. IMO, I don't think it's necessarily a procreate or not to procreate issue. I think it's a mentality issue. Humans have been destructive to the environment, and to each other as we've progressed through history in our search to invent and learn new things to find easier and better ways to live, and what it comes down to is the mentality that each generation has grown up with. For example in the middle ages no one gave a thought to throwing their fecal waste out the window, but now we couldn't comprehend doing that, we have toilets and systems in place to treat and sanitize our waste. Or growing up as a child I remember fast food always came in styrofoam containers you just threw out and no one even knew about recycling. As our times have evolved so has our thinking. We need to further change the way we see the world, and it does happen . . . although sometimes too slowly. Even now younger generations are starting to have a different mind set than the ones that came before, hopefully for the better, and that they learn from our mistakes before it's too late.

In response to people's personal decisions to have or not have children I say to each their own. I and my DH want children, but my sis and her DH do not, we both have thought long and hard about it. People (in general) need to respect other's decisions, we would all get along better if we could do that.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 4:23 PM
 22 Sep 2004
 In the Land of Misfit Toys
evil.mena
Raving Lunatic
14,430
Okay, now I understand your term, I just don't think it resonates with what you're trying to say and therefore, can be miscontrued and taken offensively.

Look, I don't necessarily like all kids, and I do find them annoying...even my own sometimes! But I also understand that we don't live (nor do I want to because of what that could mean) in a world of all well-behaving, perfect, seen and not heard robots. I have to deal with my own intolerance and impatience as I am party to that dislike and take ownership of it instead of just insisting that ill-behaved children have something wrong or are terribly parented. Although there are rare instances when I might think it. whistleold

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 4:26 PM
 28 Jun 2004
 Unknown
Anonymous472
Unknown
1,899
I think it's more about how nosy we are and how we feel it's our right to know what's going on with anyone and everyone.

Take a look at our board in just the last week:

Who paid for you to go to school?
Michael Douglas has cancer!
NPH is adopting twins!
What was ThatThread about?
Would you marry someone 20+ years older than you?

All of these are meant to be simple conversations but they are really none of our business. Yet we continue with them and comment and when an opinion comes across that is outside of the norm, people want an explanation.

So, I don't know that it's necessarily about society being child-centric. ETA: sorry, I also misunderstood this term to mean that society revolved around children.

As someone who has children, I am very well aware of places that aren't child friendly (and there are a lot).

Shore - You mentioned the child seats and colouring pages. Next time you're in a seeming "family" restaurant, make a visit to the bathroom and see if there is a change table. I have encountered many a family restaurant where there isn't. And believe me, there were plenty of rude looks coming my way when I put the change pad on the counter instead of the floor. Also, check out the kids menu - fat, processed, greasy, fried foods. It's a challenge to find a place that DOESN'T serve chicken fingers and fries. Restaurants give the facade of being accommodating to people with children with their chairs and coloring books, but they really aren't.



avatar
 2 Sep 2010 4:36 PM
 22 Sep 2004
 In the Land of Misfit Toys
evil.mena
Raving Lunatic
14,430
Going back to the questioning by family, friends and strangers and general harassment. Like Anonymous472, I've been thinking about this, and aside from the jacka$$es who feel their need to press their desires on others, I honestly think like even scottish mentioned, it's about conversation.

I see it as a learning about and also learning from people. They may give me a perspective or reason I hadn't considered or it will be interesting to hear their perspective and nothing else. And really, I doubt people honestly think because they tell you you should have one (even me with having another), that they honestly believe because they say it it should be law. Again, that doesn't mean harassing or saying things that makes people feel bad is right. Just that isn't always meant in that vain.

Perhaps one's perspective - having been harrassed and made to feel that way - puts one on the defensive so that anyone else who casually asks or makes a comment is taken much worse than intended?

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 4:51 PM
 18 Jul 2006
Dazed
Postaholic
8,516
I'd like to add in two more cents, specifically about the "child-centric" thing. Aside from all the points already made about how things can be child-centric based on the assumption that as a 28 year old woman (who, incidentally, apparently has a perfect uterus and ovaries---thanks for that, doc! :P) I am expected to have kids, there's something that arises when I don't have them, and especially if I say that I don't want them.

Essentially "child-centric" reminds me of the phrase "Oh, well, that's nice Dazed that you and your guy help out so much, but really, we need parents to run this club." Yes, because a parent with a vested interest in his or her own child will do a better job than two DINKs with disposable money and time to devote to the club. tongueold Just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't care about them and want the kids I have in my life to turn out great. That child-centric attitude (which would perhaps be better phrased as "parent-centric", now that I think about it) is infuriating. Lo and behold, the parent they are so desperate to put in charge of everything is too busy with her 3 year old to do it and doesn't want to burn out. Go figure.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 5:08 PM
 22 Sep 2004
 In the Land of Misfit Toys
evil.mena
Raving Lunatic
14,430
And also Amber, your quote of what I was saying was in reference, once again to something entirely different which again has failed to be answered by the poster in question.

So for you to argue you only point on it doesn't make a whole lotta sense...I got your point, I don't necessarily agree with all the arguments in it, but I got it.

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 5:13 PM
 7 Jul 2005
 Saskatoon SK
redandrea
Devotee
2,345
I think this has come up once or twice in BB-land - the idea that parents, sometimes specifically mothers, need validation.

In so many other aspects of our lives we get recognition of a job well done, good grades, feed-back on how we've done well and where we can improve, communication between boss and subordinate. Then those of us who do have children are all of a sudden thrown into a world where the decisions have huge implications on that little someone who is now the center of the new parent's universe and there is NO RIGHT ANSWER. No answer key. No class to take and no test to study for.

I think it's not surprising that many parents, especially our mothers and previous generations of mothers who traditionally bore the brunt of the child caring burden, feel extremely defensive about their decisions. Starting with the decision to have kids and then moving to all the decisions made regarding how to raise those kids.

I bet there are many older women who would have chosen not to have children if that had been an acceptable view point or even a possible decision to make 100 years ago, 50 years ago, or even 25 years ago. But now Granny is looking at her sweet 28 year old grand-daughter who has a choice to do something that Granny never even considered an option. It's not surprising that Granny worries that having no children will be a choice later regretted, because that's the world that Granny knew when she was having kids, and that's her frame of reference.

Your parents chose to have you (most likely, obvious exceptions here). When you then choose not to have kids, some parents will think "Why did they make that choice? Do they think that I made a mistake having kids?" It's like the parents who want their kids to go to the same University they went to, or who want their kids to play and love the same sport that they do. Regardless of how much we as parents want our kids to find their own way, grow as individuals, blah blah blah, we also kinda want them to be just like us. Because we're obviously the coolest people they know!

avatar
 2 Sep 2010 5:18 PM
 3 Sep 2007
 Winnipeg, Manitoba
Laur86
Devotee
2,286
riginally Posted By: amberm145
Originally Posted By: Laur86
Those are some of my thoughts, but I should just say that I also truly appreciate the input to this discussion from Shore, Amber and Dazed and others. I have a coworker who has chosen along with his wife to not have kids. I asked him about this on a business trip once and he explained very nicely to me their reasons why. I never even thought that I was being rude.
Mind you, him and I have a pretty good relationship and I do not think he was offended. But I get the points you are making about the obtrusion into your personal life.


Laur, being asked by a friend is not an obtrusion to me. What's rude is being flat out told by a near stranger that my choice is wrong, that I am making a mistake, and I just need to put more thought into it.

But I think we all agree that's rude, so that's why it's not the point of my argument.
**********************************
(I didn't quote the above properly! Oops!)

Thanks for the clarification Amber, not that you needed to. I think I am understanding everything that you are saying about strangers pushing their opinions on you and THAT being the annoying and rude part. I just meant to say that I really didn't even think before I started questioning why my co-worker would not have kids.

Which brings me to the whole, "child-centric" thing.

I have to say, I'm a little baffled as to how this word confused so many. As I said previously, I'm from a massive family with tons of kids and I basically live and breath for discussing and reminiscing all the ridiculous and funny things my 7 and 6 year old brothers do on a daily basis so, maybe my opinion is a bit skewed, but, come on.....our world IS child-centric!
Whatever child-centric means to you, really, we are.

Especially, as some of you have posted, you hold to the whole "it's natural for us to procreate" and whatnot, then well, even more so would I say that we are child-centric. if it's natural and we "should" do it or we are "meant" to do it (NOT my viewpoint, just trying to explain) then isn't our world, or are we not "child-centric"?

Any of that make sense??
I hope so.
To summarize: I think we are child-centric.
I love babies! And anything baby-ish....including my baby cat Ratchet who looks a lot like the "Avenge GBWB cat" except not as scary.

avatar
 31 Oct 2012 11:59 PM
 30 Apr 2012
 buzzle.ca
buzzle
New Member
0

Want to continue the discussion?

For more discussion like this or to reconnect with weddingbells.ca forum members, check out the forums at buzzle.ca!
  1 2 3   

More Like This...